Removing the Panther II made sense if the game was aiming for historical accuracy. Thats why you will often see lack of initiative and decisiveness on German teams. is getting boosted taking them out requires specific loadouts and concentration, which makes the CAS player very susceptible for enemy fighters, this is further exacerbated by the poor balance among the nations at different br.s. While an M18s speed might allow it to get to a point a few moments before a Panther would, the M18s lack of armor and less capable cannon burden it if something like a Panther arrives shortly thereafter. Not being able to be constructive in any way seems key to yourself. Also get the do and other planes as well that just tear it up with cannons that often have a more lasting affect than allied cas. But the T34doesn't wreck anymore havok than a Tiger 2 h 10.5 does. War Thunder trading. He travelled over doctor oz supplement ed Greece and Arabia, and wrote a history of the doctor for gods, in which . It takes about 0.5-1s to stop but experienced player can fire earlier - APHE just needs to hit center-mass of a Centurion to kill it. Download Free PDF View PDF. That's your personal preference. SIKE German mains am I right? He is guaranteed to be faster at the cap point and can set up an ambush. Slow vehicle that suddenly appears. Nope you leave them to their own meansor use them as bait if you want to be a jerk about it. That's good to hear, I know I did my part to live up to those stories. I wouldn't say its off topic at all, map friendly brawling options fallsintocategory's the suffering community thinks Germany needs and in the upper low MBT department East Germany is suffering as the tanks are missingaltogetherlike some other nationsvehiclesand that right there is the very definition of "Suffering". No matter how well you argue or what evidence you cite, you will inevitably be attacked by the people who cling to beliefs of German victimhood if you speak out against it--the believers dont want to hear dissent--just know about that. That is basically telling your enemy "I am here" and to commit assisted suicide. In an one on one battle with one cap point andrough, uneven terrain you will lose against the M18 in your panther 8 out of 10 times. I am a guy who plays all nation with Germany being my single most played nation. So, lets dive in to look at some of the most common claims: One of the most common complaints that is leveled against the nation of Germany is a perceived lack of mobility. In that experience, I have found that. You can skip APCR because it won't do much. I never said the hull was bad on the t series i have stated that as long as you don't hit the tracks you pen and the other thread we are in has showed that. The entire team proceeds to die because there is no one to set up a lodgement because everyone wants to play their uber heavy and those who want to play light tanks end up using a LT that is completely ineffective against 90% of the targets. It's just that the slow/tall/heavy tanks are usually on the bad end with the current level design. Absolutely you're right on that point, but let's turn the tables here for some perspective. Usually it's the other way around, the M18 waits around for a target and looks around corners with the third person view camera. I've whacked Leopards with my SU-5-1 but didn't have much to do with the vehicles. It's as hard to shoot a the turret of a tiger 2 as it is to shoot a T series turret. Mobility is the aspect that most German vehicles are less focused on than their peers, but this is made up for by the Germans better firepower/armor than their peers. I haven't used mine for like 3 months. To believe that mobility is the only thing matters is to ignore almost everything that matters in a match. First of all the amount of smoke the projectile generates when it strikes a target is ridiculous. Nobody likes uptiers and Germans are no exception--but theyre not suffering any more than anyone else. Julius, a doctor supplement for ed friend of Horace, who is there a generic viagra or cialis accompanied Claudius Nero in his military expeditions. Thank you for your attention and have a nice day! With the (by my understanding) more recent ai changes in air realistic battles the ai is now invulerable to most guns, this also led to a lack of engagement in the maps that were made to adapt the changes, are there plans to change the current player-a.i. As a bad player I would say that German ground vehicles require a lot of patience to play effectively. (Oh how many times I have shot the IS6 turret from 400m and all I did was turn the gunner yellow) Plus they have things like T44 which are very bouncy to the 88. With a few more wins per hundred matches, they'd be. interactions? And here comes the issue with uptiers. while proclaiming yourself in some sort of 'neutral good' position. So you are saying that if weassume the classic map setup in Warthunder, where we have a cap point roughly in the middle of the map and the team starting on the opposite edges, the slower tank can win the game by camping after crossing only aquarter of the map? I am losing a little over half my team (if my team is made up of mainly germans, which it generally is, otherwise about a quarter leave) before the 3 minute . So don't play into his game, your typical player basereallygets a kick out of surprises. An uptier will barely affect the performance of an M18. By and large, Germanys main strength is firepower with armor being the secondary asset. NO 4.3 FRENCH TANKS? The 341 is practically an closed top, better armoredM42 with more than double the ROF, 40m/s faster velocity, and almost double the explosive filler that doesn't have it crew killed by 7.62s and doesn't explode from a stray bullet hitting it's exposed ammo. The fast-paced and valiant opener marks a strong, excessive statement right at the beginning, because every detail fascinates: the riffing, the solos, the chorus, pick out whatever you want. The likes of P-47s and Fireflies can make multiple distinct strikes against armor before working to secure the skies of the battlefield. they're glass cannons. It is however annoying still though. All trademarks, logos and brand names are the property of their respective owners. Hardly an advantage. Both the american 76mm and the russian 85mm will penetrate that front plate if not correctly angled. Despite the hype, Allied fighter-bombers are not hypermaneuverable UFOs when they're laden with their payloads--they're easy meat for things like the Bf 109s and La-5s. Which also has bombs as well. If you would have told me you hit the outsides of the turret face no real angling makes it any flatter than what it is. Thats because the Germans don't have more modern light tanks in the game. Like bombing out caps or sniper ridges. Not so long ago, when the update was released, I made a post that currently has over 3000 views . 20112022 Gaijin Games Kft. MBIZO CHIRASHA( International -Zimbabwean) is a Pan-Writivism Laureate Literary Arts Activism Diplomate/Influencer, Certified Projects Curator, African Writing Associate/Visiting Arts Programs, World Renowned Anthologist, Poet in-Residence Emeritus ,Festivals Convener/Speaker/ SpokenWordArtist. I invite others to list other claims of alleged German suffering so that those can be talked about. For instance: in the M18's case, this is manifest in its far greater bounciness. And that's just fighting american 6.7 with other 6.7s good luck in 5.7 vehicles when you get uptiered, lol. If a person is to look at other trees and seek to understand the problems they face, far worse MM can be found. German CAS planes are generally heavy fighters, attackers, and bombers whereas the premier US/UK CAS planes are well equipped fighter bombers. War Thunder > General Discussions > Topic Details dungeon eagle, gungeon ant Apr 15, 2021 @ 4:26pm germany suffers panther at 5.7 (it should be higher) Last edited by dungeon eagle, gungeon ant ; Apr 15, 2021 @ 4:52pm The author of this topic has marked a post as the answer to their question. Tried to flank with the Tortoise? It's obvious which has the better hull where as its obvious who has the better turret. They usually tend to be just as useless as those M22s too. It requires however quite some skill to shoot targets in RB from a far and you still lose if noone caps. The personal well being of the person who capped it means little to the team if they have succeeded--that part of their reason for being is fulfilled by then. The first two points can be resolved by reforming the German tree to not have the jumps that it has and by requiring players to unlock more vehicles to progress to such higher BRs (as other nations have). I'll have to talk about CAS soon I suppose. 0 capable AA's, meanwhile germany is literally spoilt with choice. You can use it, for the Tiger I lovers the way to go. T92, T114 are the most common culprits but yes there are more. The King Tiger has a high rate of fire, superior armor profile overall (weak cheeks that are very hard to hit if wiggled, better UFP and massively better LFP), better side armor (vertical 50mm on T29to sloped 80 mm on KT). The T28 is indeed scumy, not because its to op but because its almost the same tank as the T95 but at a lower br also the side armor thing matters a lot, this is a slow tank, THE slowest tank actually, the panther and tiger have enough speed to compansate for it unlike the HUGE top speed of 13 km/h that the T28. I like Abandoned Factory, I think Middle East is trash. Germany has so many vehicles that some are clunkers and others are very OP. As said above, aircraft carriers don't exist in arcade. (This topic will likely be flooded by people doing exactly this or otherwise trying to hijack the thread.). Don't know maybe deserve a new play again. Many people think that this is a huge advantage the Americans have over Germany and Russia War Thunder T26E1-1 was probably scrapped after the war. The AR with no armor, lackluster speed, no guns, or perhaps the TA which can only do bomber hunting and perhaps a few light vehicles however with limited ammo and frail frame it will get eaten by .50 CAL You can check the loadout options, you either have to pick a fighter, bomber or an attacker, there are no multi task missile and bomb armed super props that can wreck havoc on the ground and then dominate the sky. ..and I'm not talking about the vehicles, they're OK-ish. The most frustrating thing about these engagements is how random it feels to play against a T__. If he sees that you do dare to cap he will just rush back because he has the speed. Just in case, just drive backwards or risk turning the hull sideways and drive foreward (). The armor is nowhere never Tiger II H level. T28 with 305mm of frontal armor at 6.3? India. FInally we can do much more than to just get flanked. Germany has access to the P-47 the same way the US has access to the 109 and 190. Real German problem here---> East Germany, "Where's our tank? This is a battle of patience and cunning. They are the equivalent to the surge of M22s that the allies occasionally see when some overly loud youtuber decides to make a video about "haha ebic meme tank"causing an influx. To say that Germany suffers over this is wrong. Is this being discussed? I can't even tell whether they even attempted to add the incendiary ammunition, like the phosphor round. It is a medium tank like the Panther II or T-44. (well until last update and the introduction of M41). Also .50 cals have too much pen, loosing light tanks and all sorts of AA vehicles to those is no fun, especially if other nation just have to rely on their main guns. That's where the Panther gets stuck due to bad low speed mobility. I think a topic you missed is also CAS. Thats why you will often see lack of initiative and decisiveness on German teams. Also, let's not forget that Germany has a proper line-up of SPAAs till 8.0, if you discount the gap between 6.7 and 8.0, so 1.3BR gap. What will you bring? I almost never see the Swedish Centurion, no matter playing on or against British team. The Tiger II's gun is stabilized but it doesn't bounce. The stock ammo for them is useless! Background: I am a guy who plays all nation with Germany being my single most played nation. You have to angleit correctly to make it work. 20112022 Gaijin Games Kft. He usually has like 5 different options. While German vehicles cannot quite match others vehicles in a drag race, this does not mean German vehicles are bad. Think a bit ahead. The Tiger I is hard to play and inferior to the Panther! There are many, many more ways in which Germany is claimed to suffer--these are just a few that I chose to address for this first post. The allegation is that because the Germans Tigers and Panthers cannot keep pace with the Americans M18s, the Russians T-34-85s and other like vehicles that the Germans simply cannot compete with these vehicles or the teams that use them. Then you have very bad chances to win as USA, since you won't be able to flank them. Armor. Samuel Tito Pessa. Most German fighters can either take a 500kg bomb or a 250kg bomb. Which isn't as many as the P-47 you still get access to the same 1,000 pounder and 500 pounder it gets just not at once. Furthermore, using simple math, after 2 Minutes the number of places where the M18 could be is much bigger than the number of places where the Panther could be. According to the complaint, Germany suffers terribly under the weight of uptiers. They die as soon as literally any heavy pulls up and just the purpose of giving the enemy free RP and SL. I agree that between 8.7 and 9.7 Soviets have overall bad mobility, but i strongly disagree that T80B, T80U and BMP3 have bad mobility. That's just how a downtier works no matter the battlerating. According to this complaint, Germanys mobility is insufficient to be competitive in RB GFs, with the greatest concentration of this complaint being focused on the 5.X range. Mobility: The complaint: One of the most common complaints that is leveled against the nation of Germany is a perceived lack of mobility. Most of the time they use their speed to cap the mid point rather than setting up a scouting position. They still exist just can't be unlocked by new players anymore. The stock ammo misery for every leos and m48 etc. It's just so effective and has a good size-able ammunition pool. I've whacked Leopards with my SU-5-1 but didn't have much to do with the vehicles. If you do manage to pen turret you only kill 2 crew at the most, and he uses his excellent reverse gear to get away. From my observations, Germany only seems to be one of the most popular single nation selections that people make and many of the people being looked at are often very low level (Level 11s are common, even at 5.X). The M18 can't ambush you if"take your time getting to the cap" they'll grow impatient then heads towards your spawn points making it easier to ambush them on the counter. I found German mobility fair as you already answered the Heavy amor and armament give them a huge advantage and if you play your cards right you can effectively cut off flanking routes to the enemy. Other options like FW's with 1000kg bomb drops are just too bad in a fighter role, as well as the Me 262 Pulkzerstrer. However there were so many german prototypes that could have taken it's place. And T topically blow up now if you go through the turret. One advisory to all readers interested in posting: before you do post, be warned that there are people who will likely attack you for not buying into the Germany suffers claims. In real life, German cats had a more advanced system/concept known as regenerative steering, this is vastly more energy efficient and especially useful for these heavy late wartanks, and other tanks after the war. Step forward progressively, oh how I haven't seen that argument before. Kingtigers are best tanks for german tree even if it has nerf. And Germany has long 88s also at 5.7. Tell me what 6.7 what tanks have penetrating the side of the T series. All trademarks, logos and brand names are the property of their respective owners. that I won't be able to catch if I miss (only to in best case scenario get about 2k sl from the kill)? Just shoot turret for an easy penetration anywhere within 2km, and watch as the king tigers ammo gives a nice firework display. . One of those is a premium, one of them was added literally last month and has an abysmal stock grind, and the last one is a terrible casemate TD that happens to be somewhat faster than a medium tank. The issue is that T__ are better than every heavy in game all the way up until the IS-3, and their BR should reflect that. Of course the thick armor and good gun can be an advantage. I mean this thing has a chance to kill KT frontally by spamming around the turret ring and it can take out the gun barrel within 2-3 shots.When the M41 of a German player is destroyed, well you can go panther which is not the best when it comes to maneuvering, or perhaps a puma which can get shredded by .50 CAL. And I've had 90mm HEAT non-pen on the tracks of a T34. And that brings me to the issues with the economy, the game's economy is soulcrushing, now I do understand that you need people to spend money (and for what it's worth I have), but there is little to no enjoyment for the average player in the game. Clearly you haven't seen Gaijin's big maps from afar before. One advisory to all readers interested in posting: before you do post, be warned that, No matter how well you argue or what evidence you cite, you will inevitably be attacked by the people who cling to beliefs of German victimhood if you speak out against it--, Nuclear Sciences, Robotics, All Things Engineering, History, Side turret is 150mm or higher so angling is really easy as well. What makes teams such an acute problem? I've heard that damage output might be linked to vehicle tiers and the Puma is just rank 2. And i find that the 88 one shots the T series rather easily now through the turret. The only way the Germans can use their strengths to dominate such maps is with good teamplay. All in all, these things boil down to the sort of trade offs that are to be expected. When I played my 6.0s, uptiers to 6.3 and 6.7 were common but things worked out well. And I'll give you the T29 it was worthy of 7.0 but if your gonna sit here and argue the T34/30 are suddenly worthy of 7.0 you have a biased opinion. Recently I got the MiG 19s and its just been soul draining bad because off missile spamming and almost constant uptears, so I try to go back to the MiG 15 and G.91 but they experience a similar problem. None of this is specific to Germany or the Americans mind you. Falcon is especially broken as it handles like a light tank with 110mm of pen a super rapid fire rate. Isn't it also true that many of the people who play the soviet tree only play the soviet tree? Neither Soviets, Brits nor Ger vehicles have them, beside some prems or some advanced sub-types. Interesting, unless you are talking about the driving comfort of the crew I thought we had a couple of long discussions on here where you said main gun bounciness compared to stabilized tanks like the Sherman series are negligible. For Centurion Mk.3 vs King Tiger H, The long 88 can kill the Cent before it can point precisely on its turret cheek. Its an endless cycle so you better get used to it. This leads to US players spamming the turret and thus smoking the gunners view. The problem is that the faster tank has the advantage of initiative. yes in the real world and on paper, but in a game where you play the same maps over and over again and know all the ways hideouts. (and enjoy the performance of APCR). Once he has spotted you, you are basically dead. As a person who has played multiple nations, I can again draw on my varied experience for insight on this matter. The Tiger II Sla.16 is the one outlier in Germany 6.7. Sell, buy or trade War Thunder Items and Services here. Pointing it down doesn't do anything as I've found. Add the EBR 1954 Version in the Tech tree, add the French Tiger 1 'Bretagne', add the French stabilised gun variant of the AMX-10RC and AMX-30 in the main tech tree . Has 7.1 second reload (slower than 6.7s of the 105 L7 guns), -6 gun depression, and only 17.3 deg/sec traverse, so it doesn't fit gun handling meta. On paper there is no logical reason why Germany shouldn't be doing much better than these nations which have worse line ups and fight the same threats. The T34 where as it has more penetration it has a longer reload and solid shot which recently seems to have suffered a reduced damage output off it round. T-80U only fixes armor (although weakspots veeerrry preminent), slightly better HP/T (still -10 kph reverse though), and a slightly better reload (6.5s but still slightly slower than other 120mms). When I play american tanks I always use the .50s to take out barrels, it's really effective as long as your enemy has a gun calibre less than 100mm. Which he can only do if he knows where you are, you can't flank what you can't see now can you. It's scary and you die whichever you run into. Lets assume competent players who don't gamble. I've said that I'm looking at things that are perceived as suffering but aren't in the interest of finding and isolating the true examples for sake of fixing these things. In general, German win rates are in the 40s even at their lowest and this means that they're near the balancing point (the 45-55% range, being within +/-5 of 50%). The Panther, by contrast, is reasonably quick for a medium tank, retains decent armor and is vastly better armed. APDS is guaranteed damage, just aim for specific crew one at a time or shoot for modules. All trademarks, logos and brand names are the property of their respective owners. Sure, technically I can penetrate and get a critical hit, or I could be 1 pixel off and hit double thick armor, or my shot could get absorbed by the breech. This is still a pretty hard shot to hit as there are still trolly double thick parts and the breech often absorbs 88s without them having time to fuse, resulting in no crew deaths). Same procedure as with Panthers. Stepping forward progressively is how I use(d) my poor reversing tanks and the Panthers were among them (the British were the biggest group though). This puts Germany in a lose/lose position when choosing their plane to call in. The problem here is that Japan doesn't have a lot of players and thus meeting japanese aircraft is pretty rare in RB. Been consistent honestly. - If its not, he will hide and wait till you cap. Those three qualities are what control the tank's ability. And I've never had issues with the breach on a T series unless I've hit the outside of it or its well past 500 meters which is were the 88 will struggle you can still go through the hull of it but need to be more cautious as a whole. I'd love to hear an in depth explanation of why you think that. The most obvious example of this is that a player can jump directly from the Panzer IIIs at 3.0 to the Tiger H1 at 5.3. Uptier your Panthers that can't even penetrate the side of the T__ turret? The basic problem with this grievance is that people figure they need to have a vehicle as fast as their enemies to win--you dont. You don't want that then that is fine, noted. And the you said the atgms you made it sound like they were common place. According to this complaint, Germany's mobility is insufficient to be competitive in RB GFs, with the greatest concentration of this complaint being focused on the 5.X range. But to the long 88 you can kill them rather easily. 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Meansor use them as bait if you go through the turret take a 500kg bomb or a 250kg.!
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